The Hidden Stress in Your Face — Nathalie Romina Marktler

Welcome. This show is for people in the middle of something difficult. If you're navigating burnout, a career change, or rebuilding something that stopped working, you're listening to Share, Inspire, Explore. I'm Chris Wilson. I've been through it. And I built the Where I Met's community because I couldn't find the conversation I actually needed. Season two is guest-led. In each episode, I sit down with someone who's lived it or studied one of these phases. Recognize. Reset. Reinvent. Real conversations. Nothing packaged. Let's get into it.

Welcome back, everyone. Today, I'm joined by Nathalie Romina Marktler, who's a Vienna-based face yoga teacher, meditation guide, and presence work practitioner. Through Mirror Encounters, she works with individuals, groups, and organizations on self-care that starts from the inside, using the face, breath, and body as tools for genuine reconnection. I first came across her work at a marketing workshop here in Vienna, face yoga, and face yoga was about the last thing I expected to walk away with. Natalie, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome.

Thanks for having me, Chris. Hi, everyone listening. Do you want to tell us a bit about you personally, Nati? Sure. I would love to tell you something personally about me. So my name is Nathalie Romina, but you are very free to call me Nati. And I am originally from Schlattming, that's in Styria, Austria, a beautiful mountain city. Like, it's insanely beautiful in the winter for skiing, but also in the summertime for hiking. So I grew up in nature. And about five and a half years ago, I moved to Vienna. My siblings, they also live in Vienna. Well, at least two out of five. And I'm glad to be here and to have met you. And now to be here on screen with you.

That's great, Natalie. And can you tell me how you got into face yoga? What brought you into this work? Well, it wasn't on purpose, honestly. So when I moved to Vienna, I found myself in a phase of life where I felt completely overwhelmed and quite sad. And I think many people know that feeling when you are questioning everything and have no fucking idea what comes next. So whenever I found myself in those moments, I somehow, so funny, ended up standing in front of a mirror. You know, I was alone living in my one room apartment and I wanted to be there for myself. So I would simply look into my own eyes almost as a way of saying that I'm here for you. I've got you. And without really thinking about it,

I also started like gently stroking my face. I would put on a face mask and simply try to do something kind for myself. And only later I realized why that felt so comforting. It reminded me of my aunt from Romania. So I have Romanian roots. And when I was little, she would hold me and gently stroke my face. And it always felt, or it made me feel loved, safe and deeply connected, honestly. And looking back, I think I was unconsciously trying to give myself that same feeling of comfort and connection.

And around that time, I remembered hearing about face yoga, although I didn't really know what it was. And since I was already spending so much time in the front of the mirror, I thought, okay, let's just start searching online and maybe I'll find a workshop. But instead, I found a teacher training and I thought, okay, why not? If something generally interests me, I love diving deep into it. So after I completed the training, I still had absolutely no intention of turning it into a business. I simply started practicing face yoga as part of my daily routine. But after a few weeks, I noticed something I hadn't expected. Yes, of course, my face felt more relaxed. But

the biggest change wasn't on the outside. It was a relationship I had with myself. And looking into the mirror slowly stopped being like a moment of self-criticism. And it became a moment of connection instead. So that was a moment I, I knew I wanted to share it with other people, especially with those who are often much harder on themselves than they are probably with someone they truly love. And I wanted to help people create a kind of relationship with themselves. Yeah, that's how I got into face yoga. Yeah, I think our listeners burnout can definitely relate to that. Oh, you speak to yourself. It's absolutely, it's terrible. Oh my God. How you treat yourself. And looking in the mirror,

you know, you, you don't like what's in front of you at some point. Yeah. So I can totally relate. Yeah. Hi, you need to, maybe it's this, this ground, it was grounding for you to touch your face. Because you know, you're just in this, I was just in autopilot. Yeah. I'm just like, could never relax. Hated myself. And so it's nice how you related that to your childhood. My auntie. Oh my God. Like, just try it. Take your hand, put it on your face and gently stroke your face. It's just, for me, this is so calming. It's like, I respect myself, or at least I try. I try to be here for myself. And of course, in the beginning, it's probably difficult if you're like really mean

to yourself and I've been there, but just imagine it's someone you like. And slowly you start opening the room to, to see yourself and to accept yourself and to, to accept that you are doing this for yourself. Right. Of course, it's weird at the beginning, but it's so, it's, it's just so nice being there for yourself. Totally. So face yoga, can you describe that, how you found it again and why you've chosen face yoga? Well, what I said before, because it, it felt just so good touching my face and, and connecting with myself. So I think a misconception of face yoga is that, but many people think of that face yoga is something like a beauty trend or something, but for me, it's something

completely different. You, you spend time with your face, with your muscles, you get rid of unnecessary tension. You touch yourself gently. You look into your eyes. Well, that's at least what I tell my people to take a moment and look into your own eyes. So for me, it's more about reconnecting with myself. And it also opens the room to, to relax because you, you concentrate right on the task you're doing, your connect your breath. At least that's what I do. I connect my breathing with the motion and it calms me and it reconnects me with myself. Cause before I, I came to across face yoga. Yeah. I told you, I, I, I saw myself in the mirror and I realized I'm touching myself and it feels good. But when else do

I look in the mirror? Yeah. When I brush my teeth or when I have to have something to complain about myself, like look at this and I'm ugly or what the fuck. So this opened a whole new world for me to slowly start appreciating myself and the vessel I got to live in and having this human experience and also to meet myself with compassion. So it's about reconnecting with myself.

And it's very accessible, right? As you said, you do look at yourself, brushing your teeth and, you know, if you think about installing these habits into our life, you need these cues, right?

So I don't have time to do yoga. I mean, you put the yoga mat by your bed. And so as you get out of bed, you're standing on the yoga mat. Maybe it's a reminder because brushing your teeth every day is something I hope everyone does. And. Yeah. But that's what people say so often, right? Let's take, like, let's take the whole world of self-care and people say, and I don't judge it because I've been there. I just don't have time for self-care, but I don't think self-care has to take an hour. Sometimes three mindful minutes are enough, a few deep breaths, maybe a short face yoga practice, a moment just to check in with yourself. And to me, self-care is choosing to care for myself,

not because I've earned it or because it makes me more productive, but simply because I'm human. I love your name, Mirror Encounters, because it says everything. Can you tell me how you came to that name? How that's. Yeah. When it came to the name, I knew one thing for sure that I didn't want to call it something like face yoga with Natty because I never wanted to limit what my work could evolve into. So I knew I wanted to have the word mirror in the name and I love word play. And after playing around with lots of ideas, Mirror Encounters just felt right because every face yoga session is a mirror encounter. People aren't just looking at their reflection, they're meeting themselves.

And I still experience that too. Every time I stand in front of a mirror, I meet a slightly different version of myself. And what I love most or not most, but my favorite little detail is the initials, because that's me, right? So me and at the end of the day, that's where I come back to, to me.

So that's how it just works on so many levels. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah. I actually have a lot of guests who have made fantastic names more to come in season two. Excited. But if you,

what would you want someone to know before they write off face yoga as a beauty trend? Yeah, I think many people, as I said before, see face yoga as just another beauty routine, but it's, it's, it's so much more than that. For me, like I said, it's really about reconnecting with yourself through your face, your breath, and just mindful movement. You can release unnecessary tension. You become more aware of your body and just, yeah, create small moments of calm in your day. So these practices might also, might also help support relaxation and healthy nervous system regulation. Looking refreshed is simply a beautiful bonus.

I could certainly, I'm looking forward to trying this. I'm really, as I, when I get out of bed in the morning, I'm not a pretty sight. So I'm hoping, yeah, the, the shower routine and the brushing my teeth, I can, but we'll come into that. We'll do maybe a test in this episode. So let's talk about what face yoga is actually holding from the physical side, the jaw

and what accumulates there. Can you explain a bit more about that? Yeah. Yeah. I would love to. So I think many of us are not aware of how much our face does every single day, right? We concentrate, we smile, we frown, we squint at screens, we clench our jaw when we're stressed and sometimes even hold our breath without noticing it. So our face, neck and shoulders are constantly responding to what's happening around us. Because our emotional state and our body are so deeply connected, those reactions can become so familiar over time that we don't even notice them anymore. So they simply become our normal. When we are stressed, as I said, our muscle often tighten.

And if that happens again and again, the body starts to treat these tensions as normal. And that's why I believe awareness comes first. So before we change anything, we first have to notice what's already there. And face yoga simply gives us an opportunity, I would say, to slow down, to reconnect with ourselves and gently release these unnecessary tensions. So while many people

probably think face yoga is about fixing the face, for me, it's about something completely different. It's about just listening to what the face has already been trying to tell us all along.

Because just now when you sit here, just bring your awareness to your jaw. Try to relax it. Or your tongue. Where is your tongue? Is it like tight here? Does it feel tight?

Just let go. No. Historically, I grind my teeth in my sleep. I wear my anxiety in my shoulders and my jaw. Yeah, that's why this episode is quite interesting for me. I think that goes for a lot of people. And during burnout, the chronic I had doing the painkillers because of the headaches. And I believe, and as you said, sometimes I felt like I forget to breathe. And this is totally true. It becomes the norm. I say, forget to breathe. But you know, it's very shallow breath. And it's just like, some people would say I have a resting bitch face.

Because I was constantly worrying. I constantly frown. And people say, are you all right? Are you all right? And I was like, no, I'm fine. I'm just concentrating. Are those sort of, are those the symptoms that you and your clients are encountering the same?

Well, mostly stress, I would say. And, and that they just want to find something for themselves where they have like, at least a short amount of time to gift themselves for checking in with themselves. Like my, my regular client, I love her so much. She sent me a message the other day and said, Nati, for me, it's not about face yoga anymore. Like doing the exercises. It's just about gifting myself those 10 minutes in the morning to check in with myself and to at least know I'm here for myself. And that's, I think most of the people come to me because it's, you know, I offer them this morning quickie. That's, I love the name again. Morning quickie is one thing.

I do in the morning online and it's 10 minutes and yeah, we release tension. We work on the posture because face yoga is also 30 posture work and bring up the energy for the day. And we are having fun. Like she, she always, or very often texts me. She has so much fun. She's laughing so much. And I don't, I don't even know why, but yeah, I don't experience myself right when, when I give my class. It's just, I dive so deep into it. I forget everything around me, but I want people just to have a good time and to, to reconnect with themselves and the energy that's already in there. The good energy, the good vibes to set the tone for the day. Right.

Yeah. So yeah, I can see how you, you definitely have that energy from, from meeting you in person. I was just like, yeah, it's very special. Yeah. So you find,

do you find that the people don't even notice what's going on or do you have, you know, do you have to point that out to them? Well, it's a great question. And I don't think people notice those patterns and, you know,

so honestly, I don't think someone would usually come up to you and say, Hey, I noticed you're clenching your jaw all day because this happens. So, and I don't know how to pronounce this word subtly. Subtly, yeah.

Subtly. Thank you. And automatically that even other people don't notice that. But what, and that's what you said earlier, what people do notice are the visible signs, someone looking exhausted, drained, tense, or just not feeling like themselves or having a resting bitch face. And when that happens, we usually explain it with, I'm just stressed or my favorite, I guess I'm just getting older. But I think we often forget to ask ourselves, what is my body trying to tell me?

Right? Yeah. So maybe when you're sitting at your computer, just take a moment to pause and check in with yourself. Are you holding any tension somewhere? Are your shoulders lifted? Is your jaw relaxed? Are you breathing? Because as I said, awareness is the first step. And once we start noticing these patterns, we can begin to create a different relationship with our body.

I still, you know, I do face yoga like more than two years now, and I still find myself clenching my jaw when I'm working on the computer. Or the other day, I think it was two days ago, I was, I had my class in the morning. I'm so lucky that I have my beautiful dog. So I get to go outside. I cannot skip that, which is very healthy for me. So I did my walk with her in nature where I really tried to connect with nature and with her, of course. But the rest of the day, like until I think seven in the evening, I was sitting in front of the computer. I had a lot of work to do. And when I

stopped working and gifted myself with relaxing time on the couch, I noticed how tense my forehead was and my chewing muscle. So the awareness is the first thing. And then you can start working on releasing this really unnecessary tension. So it still happens, even though I know the routines, right? It's just so natural to the body. So it's interesting. It's interesting, but you can, yeah. Is it your work? Is that an immediate release? We'll go into that maybe in the test later. Or does, is it something like going to the gym, you have to train the muscles? I would say both. Like you will feel immediate release if you just let yourself dive into it. I

really want to work with you on the jaw muscle because that's where most of the people feel it immediately because it can be painful to release the tension in that muscle. And still, it's a relief afterwards. So I'm looking forward to that. So you feel the, you feel more, probably it can open the room for you to feel more calm. Depends on if you're like really docked in at the, to the moment, or if you're still, you know, flying around those, those feelings, the feelings and the thoughts, which is completely normal. But I try, I try to take you by the hand and to give you permission to really just slow down. And I don't know if you had the feeling before when you're like super

stressed and then you gift yourself with some self-care and you feel relieved afterwards and more calm and grounded. So you, you, yeah, you will feel something afterwards, but still consistency is key, right?

Consistency is key with one time face yoga or whatever else you do going to the gym or eating one healthy food ever in your life. It's, it's not done, right? Mm-hmm. Your idea, there's this inner harmony, I think you mentioned,

it creates this outer glow and you're smiling now. Can you tell us what that, what that means in practice? Yeah. So I thought I wanted to have a slogan, right? Or for me, something to hold on to. And we all know that feeling when someone is deeply in love. I hope so. Or at least we saw some people deeply in love and there is this certain magic about them. They seem to glow from within. They carry themselves differently and somehow people are just naturally drawn to them.

And I don't think it's because something on the outside suddenly changed. It's because something inside of them feels different. And for me, inner harmony creates outer glow means that the way we relate to ourselves eventually becomes visible. So when we take the time to truly meet ourselves, to be honest with ourselves, to look out for our inner world and to approach ourselves with compassion instead of judgment, we create, we create a deeper sense of connection within. And working with the mirror is such a powerful practice because it's not just about looking at your reflection. And that's what most people do. You look in the mirror and you don't just, you know, look into your eyes. But that's what I

love when you, I have a mirror right next to me, right? This is like where I do my work. So when you look into your eyes and, and allow for everything that comes up, that it's, that it's okay, it's, it's like building a relationship with yourself. And when you start caring for yourself with the same love and kindness, you will give someone you deeply care about. That inner harmony naturally starts to show on the outside. And that's what I believe the glow really is.

Yeah, this is a bit law of attraction. Natalie, can you tell us what face yoga actually is and what it isn't? So, you know, the misconceptions. Yes. So face yoga is not about chasing perfection. I think that's important to know. It's not about freezing the face. It's not about looking 20 forever. What it is, is that it's about healthy muscles, awareness, relaxation, movement, and most importantly, for me, self-connection.

That's, that's what, at least in my opinion, face yoga is and isn't. Yeah, there are many strands to it, it seems. Yeah. Can you tell us how it connects to nervous system regulation, you know, and not just

cosmetics, as you mentioned? Yeah, yeah, I would love to, because I think most of us spend our days in a constant state of doing, right? We're thinking, we're solving problems, looking at screens as we do right now, rushing from one thing to the next. And face yoga invites us to do the opposite. Yeah, it encourages us to slow down, breathe more consciously, and notice where we are holding, and I love to say it, unnecessary tension.

Those elements like slow breathing, mindful attention, and releasing muscle tension may help support relaxation and healthy nervous system regulation. So for me, it's not about one exercise magically changes the nervous system. It's about creating the conditions where the body feels safe enough to soften. So I think that's how it connects.

So the physical, you know, that felt sense of your sessions, what happens? What do people tend to notice? Well, I think people often probably or may expect a workout. And yes, sometimes your face definitely feels like it's been moving. But what surprises people most is how they feel afterward. So many tell me they came into the session thinking about work, emails, or everything they still had to do. And somewhere along the way, they realized they had taken like deep breaths and clenched their jaw or simply felt more present. It's, it's almost like giving yourself permission to arrive, not just in the session, but to arrive in yourself. How does breath work and meditation sit alongside the face work?

Well, for me, they naturally belong together. Breath is often the doorway. It helps us to slow down. And once we slow down, we become more aware. And from that place of awareness, it's much easier to notice where we are holding tension and gently let it go through movement. And meditation, meditation, meditation gives us the space to simply be with that experience instead of rushing back into doing. So to me, they're, they're not separate practices. They can be, yes. They're different ways of coming home to yourself.

I love it. And there's many skeptics out there, though. And what would you say to the, what do you say to the people that roll their eyes or face yoga?

I would say, I would say, I would ask them, have you tried it? They probably will say no. And I say, okay, if you never try, you'll never know the experience itself. So we all know those eye rollers. And I also find myself eye rolling sometimes, but then I remind myself, hey, okay, I have not tried X, Y, Z. So I need to try to have an opinion on it or two.

Yeah, to have an opinion on that. So I would love to open the room to try it with you guys. So let's maybe try it, shall we? I would love that. Like, just give our listeners a, currently I have a very tight jaw. I can feel it.

Mm-hmm. I automatically start to do this. I have to open my mouth and I crack my jaw. I don't know what that is. Yeah, I can feel it grinding here. And that's, that's been, as long as I can remember.

So yeah, I can definitely even feel it. Now I did spend a whole day traveling back from holiday. So maybe that's the airport stress. I don't know. But just, at least I have something to start off with. So maybe we can do a little demonstration and let's talk through it.

Yes. What we're doing for the audio listeners. Yes. If you're listening, maybe it's best you come back and re-watch the video if it's of interest to you. And please don't do this when you're driving, if you're driving.

Yes. So if you have no hands-free right now, that's absolutely okay. You can simply just follow with your awareness. And sometimes noticing is already enough. But if you have your hands-free, even better. So you can join. Are you ready? I'm ready. Let's go. Yeah. Let's take just a few minutes. Find a comfortable seat. If your feet are on the ground to ground yourself, that would be like awesome. But if not, that's okay too.

There is nothing you need to achieve during these next few minutes. You just simply allow yourself to be here. So we start by taking a slow breath in through your nose. And slowly breathe out through your mouth. Again, gently inhale. And an even slower exhale.

One more time. Inhale. And on the next exhale, let your shoulders become just a little more relaxed. Now, allow your jaw to soften. Let your upper and lower teeth gently separate. Your lips can stay softly together.

And bring your attention to the space between your eyebrows. See if you can soften that arrow just a little. Take another slow breath. Beautiful. Now, if you have your hands free, bring them to your jaw. Find the chewing muscle, the arrow between your cheekbones and your jaw.

And using your fingertips, begin making slow, gentle circles. Keep in mind that your upper and lower teeth are gently separate. And keep breathing. If you notice some tension in your neck, just lightly put your head a little bit more forward.

And notice how the chewing muscle feels today. Maybe it feels soft. Maybe it's holding a little more tension. And whatever you notice is perfectly okay. Sometimes one side feels more different from the other.

But we just notice with curiosity. Take one slow breath in. And a long breath out. And now let your fingertips travel to your earlobes. If you have earphones, like you have, like, yeah, you can, thank you. To your earlobes. And then gently massage them.

And work yourself up to the top of your ear in circled motions. And back down. Keep breathing deeply. Keep your shoulders relaxed. Your jaw unclenched. And then work your way back down.

And there is no perfect technique. Simply move in a way that feels comforting. Yes. Now place your hands. Maybe you shake them off in between. Because you're maybe not used to holding your arms up like that the whole time.

So now place your hands on the side of your neck. Just below your ear. And very gently glide your hands. Down toward your collarbone. Almost as if you're smoothing away unnecessary tension.

And again. Slowly. Very slowly. And one more time. Yeah. Now bring your hands to your face. Rest them softly on your cheeks. No movement. Just notice the temperature. Sometimes we don't need another technique.

Sometimes we simply need a kind touch. And offer yourself the same kindness you would naturally give someone you love. Take one slow breath. And another one. Now let your hands rest wherever feels comfortable. Maybe on your lap. Take another slow breath in through your nose.

And as you breathe out. Gently hum. And feel the vibration around your lips. Your cheeks. Your jaw maybe. And again. A slow inhale. And a soft hum. One last time. One last time. Inhale.

And now. Allow your breathing to return to its natural rhythm. Take one quiet moment. Notice your jaw. Notice again the space between your eyebrows. Notice your neck. And maybe notice something even more important.

How do you feel? Yeah. Maybe nothing dramatic has changed. Or maybe you simply feel a little bit softer. A little calmer. A little more connected to yourself. Remember this feeling.

You didn't just create it. It was already there. And you simply gave yourself a few quiet minutes to come back to it. Take one last deep breath with me.

And thank you for sharing this moment with me. Thank you very much, Natalie. It's very beautiful. How do you feel? If I may ask. I am. My jaw definitely feels looser. I'm very conscious that I'm doing this on a live.

On a podcast. But once I got over that. No, it's fine. It's really. It's like so accessible, right? That was only a few minutes. I guess this. You can do that. This excuse. I don't have time. Sorry.

Yeah. And you can do that anytime. Like when you're in a traffic jam. Just release the tension. Wherever you feel it. And I think most of the times we don't feel it in our cheekbones. Cheekbones in our chewing muscle.

But as you said, you're clenching your teeth. You're grinding them while you sleep, right? That all happens unconsciously. But when you gift yourself on a regular basis with a little jaw release practice for just a minute. And this like a couple of times during the day.

It's just. Yeah. I don't have the words for it. Honestly. It's just so nice that you take care of yourself in this way. It's a gift. Yeah. Definitely. It was the right side was more. As you mentioned, it was different.

Is that, or are you aware of which, with which side you eat more dominant? Like when you eat something, most of the people are not aware that they have like one side where they are chewing like most of the time. And so this side becomes more tense. No, I will be more aware now.

Yeah. Maybe after alcohol, you're going to have a snack. And then just, yeah, try to bring balance into that. Definitely. Lovely. So. I'm so calm right now. Yeah. I'm much more. I'm definitely more calm. And I was like, can you explain, you know, what just happened? The mechanism. And not just the feeling.

It's, I think about, for me, like you experienced it yourself. First, you were very conscious about we're doing this podcast recording. But I think the most important thing is to give yourself permission to dive into the moment, right? That's why I love presence work in my work as well so much, because it's about coming back into the moment.

And then you can experience it more and just, how do you say, gain more out of that experience as if you would just do it in German. And you say, half-hearted, which is like half-hearted, yes. So this brings me to the presence work I'm doing. It's about coming back into the moment, noticing your surroundings, noticing yourself. Like, as I mentioned before, I had this beautiful walk with my dog. And I'm so grateful I have her because she forces me to go outside, right? And to have this moment of the walk we have to do, which is on the to-do list, right? Because it's necessary for her as well as for me. But to allow myself to be in that moment, to notice nature, to notice how the wind just passes by, to listen to the birds singing.

And it just not only brings you back into the moment, but it's very, very grounding. And in my work with presence work, I also love journaling is a really big part of the work I love to do. We do have weeks reflections, so I post that on Instagram with three questions you can gift yourself with. When you take just time for yourself, it's, again, a date with yourself and to become more aware of your present state, of emotional state, of, you know, you discover what has to change and what can stay, what do I want to let go of. And I find it so fascinating that I want to come back to the point when people are in love with someone, when you have like a crush on someone, you want to know everything about that person.

And I found myself in a situation where I thought, okay, but wouldn't it be healthier to start meeting myself with the same curiosity and how can I do that?

So that's where journaling was born for me to be like in my routine. And I feel like many of us move through life being somewhere else, thinking about the past, right? Or worrying about the future or simply rushing through our days without really noticing our surroundings and ourselves.

Presence work just creates a space to reconnect with your body, your voice, your emotions. And the way you show up in the world. Because presence isn't about, you know, performing or pretending to be confident. It's about fully connecting to yourself.

And when I'm in love with someone or I have a crush on someone, I want to also really like fully connect with them, right? So let's start with ourselves.

Yeah, if you can't love yourself, then... And I want to say something I heard about loving yourself. Like my dog, right? She's so precious to me. And sometimes she does things where I think, are you fucking kidding me, dog? And I still love her. Or my niece and my nephew.

When, you know, people you love and they annoy you, you still love them. So when you are in a state where you don't like yourself, that's okay to still love yourself while simultaneously not liking yourself. But that's where you have to put the work in then, to start liking yourself.

But you can... This can coexist. You can love yourself. It's about unconditional love. You have to give yourself as you give someone else, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's not so black and white then, right? Yeah, it's very colorful. Life is colorful.

And also the relationship to oneself. In my opinion, at least. It's very colorful. You're covering a lot of the presence work there. But audience, where I'm at, sharing my explorers about burnout.

Slowing down is so hard during and after burnout. What would you say actually helps? Well, I cannot speak from burnout experience, right? And I think slowing down can be surprisingly difficult, especially after being in a constant state of doing, as I said before.

And at least that's what I experienced. Many people probably think rest is something that should immediately feel good. But when your body and mind are used to the rushing, being still can actually feel uncomfortable at first. You suddenly hear your own thoughts, right? You notice emotions you might have pushed aside. You become aware of tension you didn't even realize you were carrying.

And for me, slowing down isn't about forcing yourself to relax. It's more about, I don't know. Yeah, I do know. It's about creating small moments where you can reconnect with yourself again. And sometimes that starts with a simple task, like taking conscious breaths or feeling your feet on the ground, moving slowly or slower. When you go for a walk and you are aware of how fast you're going, just slow down a little bit or give yourself a few minutes without needing to achieve anything. So slowing down is not necessarily about doing less. I think it's more about being present, what you are already doing.

Or how was it in your experience, what helped, what helped you? The slowing down, the slowing down. And as you said, it's about the awareness. Because when you're an autopilot, you just don't know what's happening. And then you become more conscious of that state you were in before without judgment, as you said, right?

There's a long list of what I did. Essentially, it was about stopping the hustle, stopping the doing, yeah. Because this was the pattern. The doing was just a byproduct of an underlying issue. So I definitely recommend getting a professional help. Because these patterns we're talking about today usually, from my experience, are from an underlying issue, yeah. So it's all about doing the work on yourself. And it is hard. It's not easy.

Yeah. But when you come out of it, it's beautiful. It's fantastic. It's growth, right? It is. My God. It's so beautiful. But I think also, like, besides awareness, yeah, awareness is the first step. And I think the second step is to be honest with yourself.

To be honest. To recognize and tell yourself, oh, okay, something needs to change. For my own sake. Not for someone else. It's because I want to live a better life.

And it's the self-care and how you speak to yourself. Mm-hmm. And it's identifying these patterns and then, again, not blaming or judging or associating shame. But it's just identifying those patterns and then working through them.

Yeah. And meet yourself with compassion. Yeah. That's important. Constantly re-evaluating. Because the patterns appear in different guises, different ways. You see, it's like a bucket full of holes. You seem to fix.

You get one, the finger over the water, overflowing. And then another one is appearing. So it's not like, there's no quick fix, right? But that's life, right? It's just things are developing. And the most funny thing is, for me, when you think like, okay, I'm over that. I'm healed. I got this. And then you find yourself in a situation where exact that pattern come back, right? It's like, are you fucking kidding me? I thought I've learned my lesson. But it's just another situation where you also used to act in these patterns, right? So life is funny. It's so funny. And when you realize that, that you're not over that, when you laugh, it's getting easier.

You laugh because it's, okay, I thought, yay, but no. And just add a little fun to it as well. Fun discovering yourself and fun working on it, even though it hurts sometimes. And it's, growth is not easy, I think, and getting rid of all the patterns.

But it's fun. It's like, you know, I sometimes when I, I needed a frame for me to keep going, then I thought I'm in a computer game and where I'm just at this level and I need to, I don't know, collect things, more encounters that give me the room to grow. And only then I can step to the next level.

So sometimes I see myself like in a, in a game and I'm excited for the next level. And this level is probably shit, but I need that in order to grow.

And okay, I'll take it if that's the game. The danger, it becomes then the hustle as well, right? It's like I'm leveling up, I'm leveling up. But at some point I found myself thinking, when does this stop? And I'm addicted to the, this is a new addiction now. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. So I think it's, it's also nice just to take a break, even from the growth. Yeah. And appreciate where I've come, you know. Yeah. Acknowledge what you've achieved and be in the present moment. Self-optimization.

My Lord, yes. It doesn't end. It's also a bit dangerous, right? It is. It is. How does mindfulness and movement, you know, and the posture, I'm sitting here crouched over. How's it different from sitting meditation?

Well, I think both practices have the same intention, creating awareness, right? The difference is that with movement-based mindfulness, we use the body as our doorway. And for some people, sitting still, as we said before, and closing their eyes can feel challenging. And their mind becomes, their mind becomes even louder.

And movement can create a bridge. Like, yeah, through slow, intentional movements, we'll probably start noticing sensations, our breath, our habits, and the way we hold tension. So, if I point back to face yoga, is for me, that's for me like a beautiful example, because you're not only moving muscles, you're practicing awareness while being connected to your body. It's also with yoga, or when you're very aware of the movement you're doing also in the gym, right?

So, for me, meditation and mindful movements are not competing practices, they're simply different paths to the same place, coming back home to yourself. Is there a moment that you've noticed something shift in a session, not just today, you know, without identifying any details?

Is one that really stands out for you? In meditation, you would say? In one of your sessions with clients? It was with, so I was at festivals, right? And I did face yoga with a crowd, you could say a crowd. Yeah, there were more than 100 plus people. And, let me think, I had so many beautiful experiences and encounters.

Now, wow. I have a beautiful story to tell. So, there was this young man, and we had, it was like a friend's get-together, and I, my part was doing the face yoga, and I had mirrors, right? So, they could see themselves in the mirror. You can do face yoga without a mirror, you experienced it. But I love to bring a mirror and to let people look into their eyes. And that's what I told them. So, take a moment and just see yourself in the mirror, but don't look at your face. Just look into your eyes and stay there for a bit. And afterwards, he came to me and he said, Nati, that was such a deep and connecting experience.

Because, and that's somehow like this. He said, I love to look in the mirror, you know, I do my face masks and everything. And he's very, how do you say that word? Eitel, you say in Deutsch? He's very aware of his looking, right? But he said that he never, he never, ever looked himself in the eyes before.

So, that completely changed something for him and shifted something. And he said he wanted to include this into his routine to take a moment with himself. Because it felt so weird and good.

Yeah, that's, that's my favorite story. One of my favorite stories. My best friend, she also applied face yoga to her daily routine. And it changed, it also changed the relationship she has with herself.

She's like, not that judgy person anymore towards herself. She's more seeing herself with compassion now. And she's trying her best to be her best friend. And that's what fascinates me. That when you work with the mirror, really with your face, with your eyes, that's the doorway to your soul, in my opinion, right? That's, that's how I see it. The eyes are the doorway to your soul. And when you connect with your soul, I mean, that's just, that's huge, man. That's, I get goosebumps. This is for me. And yeah, yeah, that's.

It must be so rewarding doing the work that you do and having that impact on others as well. Yes, it is, actually. It is, even if you just touch one person, right?

One person's soul, or you inspire one person. Wow, it's breathtaking. It's, I think that's my purpose of being on this planet and experiencing this human life. I, I, I love connecting with people. I love, I love to see people connect with themselves. Because I was lost for so long. Maybe that's why.

I know how good it is to be connected to yourself, but I also know how it is to be disconnected to yourself. So, it is rewarding. It is. Yeah.

I love it. I'm very happy to being able to do that and to have the privilege to do that. And to come on and share that today. Yeah, I'm so grateful. So, we're approaching the end of the podcast. We just cover, if someone's in the middle of burnout or early recovery, what's the most accessible entry point?

Maybe, you know, what can be done in five minutes? I mean, we've probably done that in our experiment today. Yeah, I think we can do, like, more than people think in five minutes. And it's not only face yoga, right?

Because I honestly believe, like, five minutes can change the direction of your day. And please understand me right. Five mindful minutes won't solve any problems, right? But they interrupt the autopilot, as you said before. And in five minutes, you can breathe more deeply.

You can release some unnecessary tension. Become aware of your feelings. And maybe for the first time, that day, actually be with yourself instead of rushing to the next thing.

And sometimes that's all we need, right? Not the complete transformation, but just a different moment. I'm taking this from today, yeah. The self-optimization. Yeah. It also needs time for a pause. And I'm going to have a different relationship with my mirror now.

Oh, I love that. But I mentioned the skeptics before. What are the common resistances? Like, I'd feel silly, or like we mentioned, I did feel a bit silly doing this on the podcast, but, you know. And I love when people tell me that. Because that's completely normal, right? Trying something new, and if it's face yoga or whatever, it often feels a little awkward at first. And face yoga can also look unusual if you've never done it before. But I always invite people to stay curious and laugh if they need to, yeah? We were laughing so fucking hard at the festival on my first session. That was insane. And laughing is healthy.

And instead of maybe asking yourself, do I look silly? Ask yourself, how do I feel? Because that's where the magic happens. The mirror slowly stops becoming a place of judgment and becomes a place of curiosity instead.

So that's what I would say. Beautifully put. Beautifully put. What would you say to a listener, a community member here to try this week? What's the perfect starting point? The perfect starting point. I love that. Thank you for offering me to gift you with something you could do this week. And I would say this week, I want you, yes, I want you to gift yourself with just three minutes. Stand in front of the mirror, not looking for flaws, not checking how you look, but simply to meet yourself.

Take one deep breath, relax your jaw, soften the space between your eyebrows, and to just look into your eyes for a few moments. Notice what comes up without trying to change this.

To change it, yeah? Don't change it. Just notice it. And yes, I know it might feel a bit uncomfortable to look yourself in the eyes. I told you before the story of my friend, and that's completely normal. But I truly believe that your relationship with yourself isn't built in one big moment. Yeah, it's built into small moments. When you choose, you choose to come back to yourself and to see, yeah, to look in the mirror. Here it is again. And maybe gift yourself with a smile and just notice how it feels. And if it feels awkward, okay, try it the next day again. Maybe you do the three minutes each day for one week. See what changes.

That's what I want you to do. Absolutely correct. So good. So good. I think we're approaching the end of our episode today. Oh my God. Time flies. What's the one thing you would want the listener to walk away with today?

That the most important relationship you have is, first of all, the one with yourself. So if you notice that there needs to be work done, then give yourself permission to see that's the most important work you have to do. Because life is so beautiful. And Harry Styles said that at a concert, fill up your own cup first and let them fall in love with the overflow.

That's so beautiful. Oh my God. I saw him in that concert. I was there. I didn't, I didn't pick up those lyrics. There we go. Yeah. It's not, uh, he just said it on, on stage. He did not, there's no lyrics from his songs or whatever, but, um, cause he talked, you've been to his concert. I haven't, it's heartbreaking, but yeah.

I was there for my daughter. Uh, actually I was there to see the support act by leg, but there we go. Thank you so much for the work you are doing, Chris. That's so, you, you shine a light to a very heavy topic, which, which needs a platform to be heard. And that it's not a taboo to talk about it, to talk about yourself, to talk about how you feel and when you don't feel good or when you are in burnout.

And so I want to thank you for inviting me and for the work you're doing. Thank you so much, Natalie. It's, it's been a beautiful episode, a very different episode than I've had.

Um, and that makes it great. Actually, where can people find you? You can find me on the internet. Yeah. My classes are online. If you want to hop onto a morning quickie someday, if you are English speaking, just tell me before. I want to say I have my prime year here to do my sequence in English because I've never done it before in English. So thank you for that. I feel comfortable now doing that. So just let me know. And also on Instagram, it's at Mira Encounters.

So yeah. And if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to text me a message in my bio. You see, it says, hi, I'm Natty, your friend to go. And I want you to have the feeling of us being friends, even if it's online. So I'm here for my friends. I love my friends. And if you have any questions, please, I'm very happy to, to chat.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You have a beautiful soul and I love the energy. And yeah, thank you once again for coming on here. As I said, I'm going to have a different relationship with my mirror. And yeah, to the, to the listeners, if anything has popped out for you today, or you have any questions, just drop a note in the comments or go on to Natty's Instagram. And as she's, there we go.

Thank you again. This is going to be, maybe, maybe we see you again in the future. I'd love to. Thank you so much. And everyone listening, have a great day and beautiful encounters and the most beautiful one with yourself.

We'll end it there. Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thanks for being here for this one. If something in this conversation has stuck with you, share it. That's genuinely how this reaches people who need it.

The Where I'm At community is in the description of today's conversation hit home. Everything else is in there too. Guest links, where to follow the show. I'll see you in the next one.

I'll see you in the next one. Bye-bye.